Philosophical Unity - 28 Nov 2003

[Tavis]

<a href='http://www.ozyandmillie.org/2003/om20031128.html' target='_blank'>Philosophical Unity</a><br><br>"We wanna get stuff free." Of course, this is what people expect these days, and the internet seems to make it possible in excess. Excessiveness in anything, including the desire for free stuff, isn't necessarily a good thing. It's a rush to be able to get something at a bargain, as evidenced by the frenzy of shoppers that strike out for the malls at this time of year, but the drive to make things free for people has this nasty side effect of making stuff of inferior quality. If you don't believe that, read a Christmas sale flyer sometime.<br><br>I often find myself surrounded by junk that people don't put effort or consideration into producing, and I think that if people could actually try to offer good art the incentive, the producers of that art could make something truly valuable. I see this reflected in music, in movies, fashion, the daily comics, and even in products themselves. I find fashion insulting, because it is mindless conformity, and I feel it is way we can express ourselves as individuals that makes us cool.<br><br>True artists gotta make a living so they can keep doing the stuff they do so well, and they cannot do that if they have to keep giving their best stuff away. I wanna get stuff free, but I understand that the only way to keep it going is to contribute too.David Simpson has freely contributed something special to the world, and I can't begin to express how thankful I am for it.

[IHateUsernames]

Very true.<br><br>Besides, spending money helps the economy.

[Doctor Fred]

Stealing things off the internet is such a guiltless crime. My brother shamelessly steals movies and music all the time. If we keep not spending on these things then they're just not going to make them anymore.

[Dr. Dos]

Music, I never buy :\ I admit it.<br>Movies... I downloaded Donnie Darko, and have to get the DVD. It's way to good to not have the bonus features.<br>Books... I downloaded the Ultimate Hitchhiker's Guide, and now I have to have that, because I can't exactly print it can I?

[Burning Sheep Productions]

I go with what my grade four teacher (the best teacher I've ever had (had him in year seven as well)) says about books, "You need the bad to appreciate the good."<br>So, apply it to everything else.

[penguinita]

i'm too tired (dispite it being early still) to summarize the varous arguements (eg justifications, logic, etc) i've heard before, but <a href='http://www.baen.com/library/' target='_blank'>baen free library</a> has eric flint's opinion on the matter, and it's one that's htought-out- since he's an author and presumibly makes his money from ppl buying his books, he's put some time& thought into online piracy. i htink his arugments are well thought, and i'd paraphrase them here (s.t. ppl don't have to follow the link) but i'm tired. that website actually has about 40 books free for downloading, so you can prolly guess some of the conclusion w/o reading it. i'm off to work, but i'll try to edit this post to make it coherent at some point, or i'll just post again w/ something coherent if i feel i still have stuff to add.

[Burning Sheep Productions]

Yeah, please do that.

[dabomb4097]

I do suppose internet piracy is a guiltless crime for most. I have a VERY large amount of software and music obtained via the internet instead of the store. The only thing i will actually buy are movies, since i like having a good widescreen picture and dolby 5.1 surround sound. <br><br>I also agree that web comics are great. People like DC Simpson just draw them for the fun of it, and never expect anything in return. Those people deserve a lot of respect.

[norsenerd]

Well I can get a $700 math program for free on-line but that's stealing plain and simple. This county and almost evry other county out that has intelectual property laws and despite not always wanting to folow them or agree with them they are the laws. I have to respect them. It's called civic duty. I have no reson to disobay my country right now. That would just not be justified. Also my step-father is a profesional musicion and these dowload for free programs reasly do hirt him. Even if you download some song off a well off musicion there porblalby is some starving musician you are also stealing from. It's just not right nor fair. Until an alturnitive comes about I cannot justify myself agreeing with dowlanding stuff for free.<br><br>Now things like the Aple i-something ir ither I think are great. I don't agree with the recording industry either and think a compromise sould be found but they are doing whats in their right. I have to respect that.

[Foxchild]

while i agree with you on most of that, norsenerd... its $700.00<br>Microsoft office, and Visio, are farely expensive outside of the student market, and yet the total cost of producing the software is minimal. I have a legally aquired version of office, so don't fret there.<br><br>As for visio, that kinda gets me angry. Microsoft didn't even create that, it was a company they bought out. Everything was there, and they didn't need to do any work on it, yet to buy it it costs an additional $100 to $200 american. Thats insane, if you ask me.

[norsenerd]

Yes it's $700. The student version is $200. Profesonal software is expensive. It's like the pharmasutical industy it costs pennies to make the stuff but a-lot in development. Symbolic manipulation ain't easy to program (or work with for that mater).

[MidnightRealism]

If the music industry said, "Hey, you know what would be keen? Not charging upwards of $15 for a plastic circle!" then I would be first in line to resume music purchases. Until then, they can just die.<br><br>I download books pretty frequently, but usually I already own them. I can't keep everything I own in my room, but I <i>can</i> keep 'em on my comp. And, realistically speaking, there's probably something about being permitted to own backups or something in those copyright laws, so...meh.<br><br>Games. Hm. There's a toughie. I download software...um...frequently...but often it's to try it out. If I get sick of it, it comes off the computer. If I like it--lots--I buy it. Often the latter occurs.<br><br>Just my thoughts on piracy...

[ShadOtterdan]

As I don't have a job, most of my games are downloaded, but I am steadily buying copies of things I've downloaded. What most of the pirates don't realize is that they must support the companies they cheat or else they will have no more new stuff.

[norsenerd]

<!--QuoteBegin--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> </td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> I download books pretty frequently, but usually I already own them. I can't keep everything I own in my room, but I can keep 'em on my comp. And, realistically speaking, there's probably something about being permitted to own backups or something in those copyright laws, so...meh.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br><br>What you buy when you buy soemthing that's intelectual property is rights to a limited number of copies. Most of the time one. So backups arn't always aload, although if you can make sure that only one compy is being used at any one time you can have as many as you want. That can get trick though.

[Burning Sheep Productions]

How about they make a downloading system where you give $7 a song by mail or Paypal on the net and they email you a URL and when you go to it you can download the songs you ordered and when you leave it gets deleted after 5 seconds.