UK Pro-Hunt Demonstrators 'Invade' Parliament

[Henohenomoheji]

yeah, but when eventually it becomes obvious that planet Earth is too crowded, what are they going to do about it?<br><br>I don't think we'll live long enough to see THAT day, but... It's a possibility...

[Zaaphod]

If our population ever becomes too much for the planet to handle, the death rate will increase until the population reaches a level Earth can deal with. Harsh, but true. Nature is a cruel mistress.<br><br>

[Ankaris]

*Grabs toy representations of humans, stuffs them into a toy rocket*<br><br>That's what they'll try doing <!--emo&:P--><img src='http://definecynical.mancubus.net/forum ... tongue.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tongue.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Tavis]

Eep! What are you doing to my Lego mini figurines!?!?<br><br>*grabs my Lego recovery team spacecraft*

[Holyman83]

*make a logo Meteorite and tosses it at the toy rocket* <br><br>Better hurry Tavis <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://definecynical.mancubus.net/forum ... /smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Tavis]

I did. *activates the tractor beam, or rather a Lego tether to pull the rocket out of the way and let the meteor gop on its merry way... to the THINGY thread!*

[Fenris]

<!--QuoteBegin-Elscire+Sep 21 2004, 11:35 AM--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> (Elscire @ Sep 21 2004, 11:35 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> <!--QuoteBegin-Ankaris+Sep 16 2004, 02:13 AM--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> (Ankaris @ Sep 16 2004, 02:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> On the topic of population control, I tend to believe that without interference, a dynamic equilibrium would establish itself (oooh, sciencey terms). If human intervention is necessary, a well-placed shot would do the job far more humanly than running the fox down.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br> <br><!--QuoteBegin--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> </td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> Well, a true dynamic equilibium would require there to be many many less <b>humans</b> than there are, seeing as there was a perfect dynamic equlibrium before we came along and messed everything up =P<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br><br><br>Foxes are perfectly capable of establishing an equilibrium even with humans around. If anything a sure and steady diet of garbage will both increase and stabalize fox populations. <br><br>Yes, not hunting the foxes will mean that their population will expand, they will reduce food supplies and some will starve.. thats how it works, hunting does not change that. <br><br><br>With canines there's a mechanism to lessen the swings in population. If the females aren't getting sufficient nutrients they have fewer or no pups and the population steadily declines untill there is more food available, at which point they have more pups and the population increases. If hunting does anything besides create a small decline in numbers its to increase the oscilation, not reduce it, since hunting gets a variable number of foxes per year depending on interest, weather (a few rainy weekends and the number of animals hunted drops remarkably) <br>To give you some idea of how elastic this is, in coyotes you need to hunt 60% of the population in a given year to have a long term impact on that population. <br><br><br>I'm not sure if anyones ever looked to see if historically wolves hunted foxes in england. In the temperate US they effectively dont (wolves do however take over fox dens, and in the arctic foxes are a viable source of wolf food) if that was the case in brittian then we should expect fox populations to be self calibrating, as they haven't been hunted regularly and effectively by humans for long enough to have made a major alteration in their genetic makeup.

[Gizensha]

<!--QuoteBegin-Fenris+Sep 24 2004, 04:40 PM--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> (Fenris @ Sep 24 2004, 04:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> I'm not sure if anyones ever looked to see if historically wolves hunted foxes in england. In the temperate US they effectively dont (wolves do however take over fox dens, and in the arctic foxes are a viable source of wolf food) if that was the case in brittian then we should expect fox populations to be self calibrating, as they haven't been hunted regularly and effectively by humans for long enough to have made a major alteration in their genetic makeup. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br> ...England has wolves? <!--emo&:blink:--><img src='http://definecynical.mancubus.net/forum ... /blink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='blink.gif' /><!--endemo--> <br><br>This is something I didn't realise.

[Ozymandias]

England, as far as I know, has no wolves. France and Germany do, tho.

[Septimius Severus]

<!--QuoteBegin-Holyman83+Sep 16 2004, 01:42 AM--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> (Holyman83 @ Sep 16 2004, 01:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> I just dont see the "sport" in waiting for hours to kill a defenseless animal <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br>I agree. If the animals were armed, it'd be a different story.<br><br><br><br><!--QuoteBegin--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> </td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> Well, a true dynamic equilibium would require there to be many many less humans than there are, seeing as there was a perfect dynamic equlibrium before we came along and messed everything up =P<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br><br>Are humans no longer to be considered a part of nature? Species have caused the extinction of others since life began. The only difference (so far as we know; who's to say for sure) is that no animal before has had such advanced technology. Our complex language allows us to share and build on ideas.<br><br><br>After all, where would Newton be if someone hadn't invented the orchard?<br><br>EDIT: As far as I know, England's wolves were hunted to extinction centuries ago. We used to have both red and grey wolves where I live, but they are almost all gone now. I'm not sure why wolves fare so worse against humans when compared with, say, Coyotes.

[Muninn]

Are you kidding, coyotes have evolved better speed due to chasing the Road Runner!<br><br><i>beep beep</i>

[Ankaris]

<!--QuoteBegin-Septimius Severus+Sep 29 2004, 07:24 PM--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> (Septimius Severus @ Sep 29 2004, 07:24 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> <br><!--QuoteBegin-Holyman83+Sep 16 2004, 01:42 AM--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> (Holyman83 @ Sep 16 2004, 01:42 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> I just dont see the "sport" in waiting for hours to kill a defenseless animal <!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br>I agree. If the animals were armed, it'd be a different story.<br><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br><br>You know, there's just one thing I ask, and that's to have foxes with frickin' laser beams attached to their heads!<br><br><!--emo&:P--><img src='http://definecynical.mancubus.net/forum ... tongue.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tongue.gif' /><!--endemo--><br><br>On a more serious note, the British mainland had wolves a long time ago, but were hunted to extinction (there may be a very remote pack out there, but I doubt it) due to presumed risk to humans and livestock.<br><br>[suppress rant]<br>As for the 'discussion' on humans, animals and nature, I'd say that humans began as part of this equilibrium, but once we reached a technological and social level that allowed towns and the like, we left it.<br><br>To my knowledge, no other species on earth shows the same level of destructive tendancies. Whether or not this is due to their levels of evolution, we can't say, and while Septimus rightly points out that species have caused the extinction of others in the past, with all our advancements we seem to willingly exclude ourselves from the equilibrium while taking it apart.<br><br>[/suppress rant]<br><br>But that's just one view I have on the topic <!--emo&;)--><img src='http://definecynical.mancubus.net/forum ... s/wink.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='wink.gif' /><!--endemo-->

[Zaaphod]

An update on this topic...<br><br><a href='http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=s ... _hunting_7' target='_blank'>Britian Outlaws Fox Hunting</a>

[Muninn]

I'm for the ban, and i'm not going to pretend to have an objective reason for that.

[Ankaris]

More on that update:<br><br>The Hunting Bill has been forced through using the Parliament Act, which overrides our second House of Parliament, the House Of Lords, due to intransigence on its part. This grants opposition to the Bill founding.<br><br>The Bill <i>will</i> be challenged in as many courts as they can manage.<br><br>On top of that, there is talk of civil disobedience, ranging from continuing to hunt, to denying public service tenders access to vital property on private land, such as power pylons, sub-stations and so on.<br><br>*Hits head against keyboard*<br><br>Long road ahead... <br><br>StupidpeoplebeingsostubbornwhattheheckissowrongwithDragHuntinganyway?