Profitable webcomics?

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Tom Flapwell
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Profitable webcomics?

Postby Tom Flapwell » Thu Dec 07, 2006 6:22 pm

On another forum, someone talked about web cartoonists who make a living from the cartoons alone, some with above-average yearly earnings. From what DCS had said in the past, nobody got so lucky. Here's what he said:
Schlock Mercenary: Read the "About the author" section, where it describes how Howard quit his (allegedly six-figure income) job at Novell, in order to do the strip full time. Goats by Jon Rosenberg; Again, check the "about" page, where he says he lives in New York City and makes his living doing the comic strip.

There's no similar page for Penny Arcade, but they employ as many as five people, collected something like half a million bucks in Child's Play donations last holiday season, and now have their own Expo (PAX, the Penny Arcade Expo) coming into it's third or fourth year, which had something like 100,000 atendees last year. The rumor going around is that the two of them earn something like $2 million a year.

Scott Kurtz has been living off PvPOnline for four or five years now, including now writing for Image comics, Pete Abrams of Sluggy Freelance has been rumored to be making over $100K a year off his strip (as does Goats, supposedly) and Rich Burlew of Order of the Stick is rumored to have sold over $80,000 in books in the last two years.

Moving down the ladder into more hearsay material, supposedly Jay Naylor makes his living with his two comics (Better Days and New Worlds, although those are just draws for his for-pay furry porn works) Michael Poe of Errant Story makes his living off the strip and related artwork, as does Al from Poisoned Minds.

Two years ago, Randy from Something Positive challenged readers who were, at the time, complaining of late updates, to donate to him a years' salary, after which he'd start doing the comic full time. In two weeks he'd amassed over $18,000, and within a month had his goal of $22.5K. He's been doing the strip as a day job, and making more at it, ever since.

Kris Straub started out with Checkerboard Nightmare and now does Starslip Crisis as a day job. In fact, almost all the Blank Label comics are the authors' "day jobs", with the exception of Greg Dean, who is in school to become a chef (but the strip still helps make ends meet.) Dave Kellet just pulled Sheldon OFF a newspaper syndicate (!) so that he could make more money self-publishing.

The list goes on. Ozy & Millie, Dominic Deegan, Questionable Content, Ctrl+Alt+Del, Sinfest, Sam & Fuzzy, MegaTokyo, Girl Genius, (although that one started out a print graphic novel first,) Least I Could Do, the author of Filthy Lies is actively trying to gain readers so he can make it his day job...
O&M, of course, is at best only adequate as a moneymaker. And someone else pointed out that the "Schlock Mercenary" guy has made noises about getting another job again. (I wonder if his huge salary allowed him to save up enough not to worry about making ends meet for a while.)

Could the rest of the information be accurate? Is there hope for those who want to make a decent career out of web cartooning? (Those who treat it like a hobby surely will not have such economic success.)

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Postby The MAZZTer » Thu Dec 07, 2006 7:14 pm

I read the topic title and immediately thought of Penny Arcade. Those guys quit their day jobs and now work on PA full time.

[Edit: Oh I guess I should've read your post more thoroughly... PA is mentioned... oops >.> Oh well I think the stuff I quoted still says volumes.]

I did a quick Google search and came up with this from three years ago...
There are lots of good questions in the forum and since only ten of them will get picked for the interview I figured I’d answer a few here.

Do you feel like you're leading a fulfilling, satisfying life that you could continue indefinitely? Personally, I'd love to play games all day, but I think that after a time I would become bored with it all. (I know you do more than play games, as comics and rants don't write themselves, but would I be right in guessing that you spend the majority of your time playing games?)

I guess it’s easy to look at Penny Arcade and think that all we do is play videogames all day. Gaming is certainly a big part of our lives. At any given time Tycho and I are probably a** deep in three or four different titles. We have said before that Penny Arcade is a full time job for us and that’s true. What Tycho and I have done over the course of five years is essentially start our own small business. Not only that but we have had to invent a system for making money from our business because no one else had ever done it before. Now PA is a business that employees Tycho, myself and two other people. That sort of enterprise requires a lot of work on our parts to maintain. I am not looking for sympathy or anything, the fact is I have the best job in the world. It is a job though and if you were to ask me how well I liked it one morning while I was up to my f***ing ears in QuickBooks I might tell you to f*** off. Penny Arcade is my job and I treat it like a job. We have never missed an update in five years and we have never just posted a picture of a dog on skies and said we were too busy or tired to make a comic. This is my job and I take it very seriously.
And here's something more recent, a few months ago:
So I am the big two nine today. I guess I have one more year of youthful indiscretion before old age is upon me. It seems like birthdays are a good time for reflection and so I hope you’ll forgive me if this is a little mushy.

This November will mark eight years of doing Penny Arcade. When we started the comic strip I was 21, single and living in an apartment with Tycho back in Spokane. I was selling computers at circuit city all day and then drawing the comic strip in the middle of the night between marathon sessions of Tribes. We lived off Top Ramen and whatever leftovers my mom would drop off. I never went to college and so I had resigned myself to a career at Circuit City. It wasn’t a terrible job and in fact just before I quit I actually requested the manager training books. I figured I could work my way up in the company to a point where I was making a decent living and then I could do my artwork on the side.

Now eight years later I have a wife and a two year old son. I’ve got a house here in Seattle with a lawn and a slide in the backyard. I work nine to five at the Penny Arcade office drawing the comic, playing games and working on all our millions of extra projects. If you had told me ten years ago that this is what I’d be doing I wouldn’t have believed you. I literally have my dream job during the day and an incredible family to go home to every night. There are a lot of days it just seems too good to be true.

I guess the reason I’m telling you guys this is because it’s all thanks to you. You guys reading the strip and buying the shirts and telling your friends about it for eight years. You’re why I get to do this every day. Thank you seems sort of silly, but it’s all I’ve got.
Gabe and Tycho certainty seem to have their dream jobs. I'd sure jump at the chance to do what I love doing for a decent living.

But then there's an interesting philosophical point to be made: Intrinsic vs extrinsic benefits. We love our hobbies not because they provide us with anything tangible (extrinsic benefits) in return for doing them but because they make us feel good doing them (intrinsic benefits). Now, the thing is, supposedly we can only have either intrinsic OR extrinsic benefits. If we begin to work at our hobbies for pay or whatever, it does start to feel like work, and we get less actual enjoyment out of it. I think it has a lot to do with not being able to go at our own pace... especially for the procrastinators among us. :)

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Postby Steve the Pocket » Thu Dec 07, 2006 8:37 pm

I know the creators of "Homestar Runner" make a living entirely off the sales of their merchandise. But still, you practically have to be in the top ten or so for that to even be remotely an option, I think.

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Re: Profitable webcomics?

Postby Loeln » Thu Dec 07, 2006 10:10 pm

Could the rest of the information be accurate? Is there hope for those who want to make a decent career out of web cartooning? (Those who treat it like a hobby surely will not have such economic success.)
Only with much effort, dedication, and good material over an indefinate period of time.
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Postby Muninn » Thu Dec 07, 2006 10:47 pm

I also think you have to be somewhere in the top ten or so to be able to make ends meet with just the comics.

Sheldon is going THAT good? I used to read that before it became syndicated (it was on Keenspot I think).

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Postby osprey » Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:36 pm

Another example is Ctrl+Alt+Del (language advisory on that site).
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Postby Dr. Doog » Thu Dec 07, 2006 11:42 pm

but, DCS also does local performances and whatnot. Obviously, he doesn't have a normal label since he uses cafepress, but do any of you guys know exactly how sucessul/"famous" he is with his music career?
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Postby The MAZZTer » Fri Dec 08, 2006 1:43 am

I know the creators of "Homestar Runner" make a living entirely off the sales of their merchandise.
Ah right! Forgot about H*R. Yeah.

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Postby Rooster » Fri Dec 08, 2006 3:26 am

I don't have a job, but I'm just unemployed

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Postby Holyman83 » Fri Dec 08, 2006 4:59 am

I have a job now!I have a job now!I have a job now!I have a job now!I have a job now!I have a job now!I have a job now!I have a job now!I have a job now!I have a job now!I have a job now!I have a job now!I have a job now!

I'll be working IT for my school dist back Home! it is a great place to work, low stress good pay, and great people to work with....plus I get a lot of holiday time!
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Postby Tabris_The_17th » Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:26 am

Speaking as a serious up and coming webcartoonist (I hope), I can say that my ultimate goal is to get enough notoriety and whatnot to quit whatever dull job I'm about to get myself into once graduating college and live off my art. However, does this mean I think my comic alone will become popular enough to live off of? Not a chance. I'd like to think one day I can make a good chunk of revenue off of it, but I don't expect to live off it. I'm hoping that through that comic I can possibly work for a comic company, do some character designs, provide other kinds of professional art for things, etc. Even all that I have to keep my fingers crossed for.

So yeah, there are those lucky few who can make a fair living, but I really do believe it's a one in a million chance.
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Postby Rooster » Fri Dec 08, 2006 11:21 am

My ultimate goal isn't to get my cartoon published as that would take control of it away from me. I really want to make it into an animated film though.

No I've just got to find a gullible millionaire willing to piss away millions to hire the Ice Age guys to tell a story about 21st century woodland creatures in Derbyshire...

*packs bags and heads to Vegas*

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Postby FerretParade » Fri Dec 08, 2006 12:49 pm

My life goal is to just get myself to start a comic hah!

I think if I ever got the big leap of getting in the hang of doing one I might be at least as successful at getting at least 100 fans haha.

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Postby Angstwolf » Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:45 pm

With your style, I think you'd have a lot more than 100 fans.

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Postby The MAZZTer » Fri Dec 08, 2006 9:15 pm

low stress
Until someone asks you how to make each bar on an Excel graph a different color. Yes I was asked this, had to figure it out as I went along, solution turned out to be tedious, and eventually involved explaining to the person two-variable statistics ("You can't make a table out of these two variables because you only have counts of who picked A B or C for 1 and A B or C for 2, but not who picked 1A and 2B or 1C and 2A etc") and ended up typing her data in for her because I was about 10x her typing speed. At least she was polite about everything I suppose.

Although a large part of my frustration is probably from my complete non-ability to communicate things in an understandable and slow manner.

But before you start thinking there's hope for you, let me crush it: http://rinkworks.com/stupid/ read this and hope you never end up helping one of those people.

Have fun in IT, LOLOLOLOLOLOOLOLOL


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