UK Pro-Hunt Demonstrators 'Invade' Parliament

Ankaris · Postby **Ankaris** » Wed Sep 15, 2004 11:57 pm

Anyone else catch some of the coverage today? Mooks. If anything, they've hurt their cause, not least because this will shift attention to how on earth security was lax enough to allow this to happen. Catch the details here: <a href='http://news.yahoo.com/fc?tmpl=fc&cid=34 ... mal_Rights' target='_blank'>Yahoo Coverage</a> The bill to ban hunting with dogs in the UK has already been voted for 2, 3 times in the main House, then blocked later on. Despite all the protests and threats, it seems inevitable now, with all the good and bad it will bring with it.

Holyman83 · Postby **Holyman83** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 1:42 am

but but their trying to kill foxes like Millie <img src='http://definecynical.mancubus.net/forum ... /smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /> alright so mabey not. I dont see anything wrong with hunting personally. I just dont see the "sport" in waiting for hours to kill a defenseless animal how ever it is a good way to control populating.

Ankaris · Postby **Ankaris** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 2:13 am

Perhaps it was because I was against it anyway, but a few years back when I tried to make an objective analysis of the topic, I came out with 6 for hunting, and around 14 against <img src='http://definecynical.mancubus.net/forum ... tongue.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tongue.gif' /> On the topic of population control, I tend to believe that without interference, a dynamic equilibrium would establish itself (oooh, sciencey terms). If human intervention is necessary, a well-placed shot would do the job far more humanly than running the fox down. *Waves a sign around "Drag Hunting Ain't A Drag!"*

Ozymandias · Postby **Ozymandias** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 9:16 pm

I believe that hunting was an effective and humane way of controling fox population. If I were a fox, I would be much happier to be running in my own environment and to have a sudden blow on the back of the neck than to get shot in the leg by some clumsy farmer and have to hobble around on three paws whilst the wound went septic, I couldn't move, and maybe even get my eyes torn out by carrion crows, then finally died crumpled in a heap somewhere. On a rather different note, did anyone catch the police brutality? It was horrible. They were beating like 19 year old girls around the head with their batons.

Gizensha · Postby **Gizensha** » Thu Sep 16, 2004 11:29 pm

As I mentioned elsewhere, if anything, that form of protest kinda illustrates the anti-hunters point about fox hunting being uncivilised.

Zaaphod · Postby **Zaaphod** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 1:26 am

Why do they hunt foxes in Britain anyway? Is population control the main reason? (I can't see anyone hunting them for food.)

Gizensha · Postby **Gizensha** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 2:30 am

No, as near as I can gather, population control is the excuse. The reason, which is what people tend to retort to when you ask them 'why not just go drag hunting instead' is for 'sport'. What sort of sport revolves around making others suffer I have no idea, but apparantly there's at least one.

Holyman83 · Postby **Holyman83** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 3:30 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'>Quote: (Gizensha @ Sep 16 2004, 09:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> What sort of sport revolves around making others suffer I have no idea, but apparantly there's at least one. </td></tr></table>  actually their are several. in hockey fights are expected to break out and then you have all of the "fighting sports" just about every game has some form of making others suffer though most are as minor as hahaha I beat you <img src='http://definecynical.mancubus.net/forum ... tongue.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tongue.gif' /> that is prolly way Im not much of a sports person. Edit: just realized I had hack instead of hockey <img src='http://definecynical.mancubus.net/forum ... /smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

erikbarrett · Postby **erikbarrett** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 4:21 am

I'd say, if you're interested in population control, stop killing all the predators!

Holyman83 · Postby **Holyman83** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 12:41 pm

the "population control" is prolly the reason the give for the people who are against it. I bet the real reason is that people like to hunt. Poor fox they can all come over her to me Ill keep them safe <img src='http://definecynical.mancubus.net/forum ... /smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' />

Gizensha · Postby **Gizensha** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 12:58 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'>Quote: (Holyman83 @ Sep 17 2004, 03:30 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'>  <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'>Quote: (Gizensha @ Sep 16 2004, 09:30 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> What sort of sport revolves around making others suffer I have no idea, but apparantly there's at least one. </td></tr></table>  actually their are several. in hack fights are expected to break out and then you have all of the "fighting sports" just about every game has some form of making others suffer though most are as minor as hahaha I beat you <img src='http://definecynical.mancubus.net/forum ... tongue.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='tongue.gif' /> that is prolly way Im not much of a sports person.  </td></tr></table>  The 'haha I beat you' is actually considered bad sportsmanship <img src='http://definecynical.mancubus.net/forum ... /smile.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='smile.gif' /> As for fighting sports, eh, it's meant to be done in a 'safe' way, and no-one gets forced to compete so... Of course, I'm not much of a sports person either, but anyway.

Zylo · Postby **Zylo** » Fri Sep 17, 2004 11:32 pm

I never seen any foxes around here at all, so if there are too many in one area, send 'em over this way; they're very welcome here!

Henohenomoheji · Postby **Henohenomoheji** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 4:00 am

at first, I found this article funny... mainly because of things like some guy dressed as Batman got into the place thing. I have beliefs on hunting but I don't know what they are yet, so for the moment I'm going to just laugh at the batman person. I hate sports like football and hockey. Yes, the object is to beat each other up, but they're not honest about it. Unlike the Martial Arts. ...okay, the Martial Arts aren't that honest either, but they're a helluva lot better at covering it up than hockey and football. At the moment the only problem I have with hunting is that it's not done on equal terms with the hunted. Hunting a fox with a gun=no. hunting with a dog=depends on the size. Hunting a bear with a spear=OK. of course i've never seen a bear actually fight, but from what I hear they're faster and stronger than humans... *sigh* I'm still at the stage where I think I'm invincible... I desperately need somebody to beat me in a real fight... I'm going to go to bed now, maybe I'll recover my senses in the morning.

Ankaris · Postby **Ankaris** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 2:29 pm

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'>Quote: (Ozymandias @ Sep 16 2004, 09:16 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> I believe that hunting was an effective and humane way of controling fox population. If I were a fox, I would be much happier to be running in my own environment and to have a sudden blow on the back of the neck than to get shot in the leg by some clumsy farmer and have to hobble around on three paws whilst the wound went septic, I couldn't move, and maybe even get my eyes torn out by carrion crows, then finally died crumpled in a heap somewhere. On a rather different note, did anyone catch the police brutality? It was horrible. They were beating like 19 year old girls around the head with their batons.  </td></tr></table>  And here's where we hit upon the downside of my solution <img src='http://definecynical.mancubus.net/forum ... ns/sad.gif' border='0' style='vertical-align:middle' alt='sad.gif' /> True enough, we can't expect every shot to kill instantly, or even kill, but given what I've seen of hunting, I still think shooting is more effective and more humane. After all, the odds are roughly 40 - 1 (riders+dogs) sometimes even greater, so I fail to see any sport gained in hunting. And if the fox should make it back to its burrow, it isn't safe. Often the hunters just dig / smoke it out and kill it anyway. I've also seen pictures / vids (how often their content actually occurs, I don't know) of the fox been cornered then mutilated, then paraded around by the 'victorious' hunters. While dogs will tend to go for the neck of something they're hunting, it doesn't mean they hit their target well, or even at all, and what should be an effective killing blow, well, isn't. Anyway, I'm getting away from my point, which is I would consider it far more cruel to be chased around the countryside by a mob, out of the blue, before being run into exhaustion and mauled. And that's discounting if I should make it back home first. As for the police actions, while they were heavy handed, I think it was more or less appropriate given the situation. A minority of demonstrators had come with the explicit intention of causing mayhem, throwing smoke bombs and fireworks as they were. How many were there with that intent, the police couldn't know, all they saw was a large crowd outside the seat of UK rule, and when people at the rear started a rush at the front, trying to get into Westminister, the police had to drive them back somehow. Standing still wouldn't have worked, and there would have been more of an uproar if tear gas or plastic bullets / tasers had been used. While I can't approve of 19-year olds getting clubbed, its a reality of protests in 21st century Britain. If you're going to take part in a controversial / high profile protest, expect trouble, and be happy if there is none. The police can't control those who align themselves with your cause, all they see is one more protestor.

Elscire · Postby **Elscire** » Tue Sep 21, 2004 11:35 am

<table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'>Quote: (Ankaris @ Sep 16 2004, 02:13 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> On the topic of population control, I tend to believe that without interference, a dynamic equilibrium would establish itself (oooh, sciencey terms). If human intervention is necessary, a well-placed shot would do the job far more humanly than running the fox down.</td></tr></table>  Well, a true dynamic equilibium would require there to be many many less humans than there are, seeing as there was a perfect dynamic equlibrium before we came along and messed everything up =P

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