Random Philosophy/Physics 5

[erikbarrett]

Most people reading this post are from a terran existence, meaning they walk on land within a gravitational field. (the exception being those who reside only in their minds. but we'll leave you alone for now) Terran direction is determined with left, right, foward, backward, down (the direction of gravity), and up (the opposite direction); with coordinates of north, south, east, and west giving a sense of location compared to everything else. Got it?<br><br>Consider for a moment an aquatic existence. The most obvious difference is that the terms "up" and "down" would have to change, because it's not easy (possible?) to determine the direction of gravity in such an enviroment. Also, locating oneself within the rest of the world is difficult because of lack of landmarks. What do you think such an existence would be like?<br><br>Discuss.

[norsenerd]

I don't think it would be all that diferent. Fishies sare still able to find what direction gravity points (they stay upright for the most part) adn there woudl still be landmarks. Being able to flot would be interesting but our socioty would have elvoved and not be too much diferent for a socological standpoint. We also wouldn't think floting was special. Just liek you think that not being able to float isn't special.

[Muninn]

The ocean floor (because presumably, aquatic existance won't be in mid-water) is remarkably like that of the surface (that's here). There are mountains, some high enough to rise out of the sea, valleys, hills and every other natural structure. The only big exception would be the flora and fauna. We know quite a lot about the oceans, but probably not enough. Cities on the surface of the water are being structured i think, but underwater would be difficult.<br><br>The biggest problem is gravity and weight. On earth, outside, you have approx. 2 km of air right above you (this may be wrong, i can't remember well), but air doesn't weigh much, even that much of it, and it thins out into space. But underwater you have much more weight on you.<br>When you go down a swimming pool and lie flat on your back, you can feel that little amount of water making a crush on your chest. Imagine living on the ocean depths. Of course we don't have to build that deep down.<br>Here's an interesting fact, deep sea fish (and i mean really deep sea fish) can withstand that pressure of water because they are evolved to it. I read that if one was taken outside the water it would collapse because just as we can't stand 14 000 metres of water above us, it can't stand none above it.<br><br>Geez, i rambled on, if you came up to here without skipping, award yourself a pie.

[Tavis]

Actually, fish being brought up from such depths would liquefy and/or explode from the pressure drop. One adaptation for the pressures is a looser fatty layer that would normally be liquid at surface pressures but would be solid at deep sea depths. Another is that the internal pressure of a deep sea fish is much higher, because it's not the pressure that kills you as much as the pressure difference. Balloons and tires have no problem unless you blow them up too much. Now, the other concern is that in much deeper levels, oxygen cannot be taken in gaseous form, and so the only way to breathe would be to inhale oxygen in an aqueous solution. There are such substances available, and of course, fish don't have as many problems with that.. but also consider that solubility is also affected by pressure, and having too great a pressure drop will cause the air to precipitate.. and be really deadly. Divers call this phenomenon the bends. I can imagine that fish suffering from the bends would be undergoing a similar problem.

[Salad Man]

<img src='http://www.sitedocurioso.hpg.ig.com.br/aquaman.jpg' border='0' alt='user posted image' /><br><br>Aquaman doesn't seem to have any problems.

[Softpaw]

Exploding fish? Cool! I wanna see!

[Salad Man]

<!--QuoteBegin-FelixLockhart+Mar 8 2004, 07:03 PM--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> (FelixLockhart @ Mar 8 2004, 07:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> Exploding fish?  Cool!  I wanna see!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br><a href='http://www.gis.net/~kazian/10.html' target='_blank'>http://www.gis.net/~kazian/10.html</a>

[Zylo]

I think a lot of aquatic bacteria and microscopic organisms have iron in them that give them a directional sense with the gravitational field of the Earth.

[Doctor Fred]

<!--QuoteBegin-Salad Man+Mar 8 2004, 07:52 PM--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> (Salad Man @ Mar 8 2004, 07:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> <!--QuoteBegin-FelixLockhart+Mar 8 2004, 07:03 PM--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> (FelixLockhart @ Mar 8 2004, 07:03 PM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> Exploding fish? Cool! I wanna see!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br><a href='http://www.gis.net/~kazian/10.html' target='_blank'>http://www.gis.net/~kazian/10.html</a> <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br> One of the very few comics that are badly drawn <i>and</i> funny.

[Burning Sheep Productions]

Crazy, truly crazy.<br>But after two hours I think it'd be kinda cool being a fish.<br>Or a shark, cuz they have those sensors that can detect electricity or something... the thing that gets emitted from living things.

[penguinita]

<!--QuoteBegin-DraganFox+Mar 9 2004, 11:55 AM--> <table border='0' align='center' width='95%' ><tr><td class='quotetop'><b>Quote:</b> (DraganFox @ Mar 9 2004, 11:55 AM)</td></tr><tr><td class='quotebody'> I think a lot of aquatic bacteria and microscopic organisms have iron in them that give them a directional sense with the gravitational field of the Earth. <!--QuoteEnd--> </td></tr></table> <!--QuoteEEnd--><br> where did you here that, gurt_ozy? <br><br>i'm not contradicting you, just courious, since i didn't think it was that common of knowlege .....<br><br>and from what i recall of my geo-biology class (which i loathed, so my memory may be fuzy), there are a decent number of organisms with magentite in thier heads, but the scientific community has not come to a consensus on if all organisms with those organelles actually use the magnetite as a compase. carrier pigdons, for example, clearly navigate using a magnetic compass since magnetic anomalies mess up their navigation skills. Also, magnetic bacteria have lots of little crystals of magnetite in them, which they are though to use to navigate (they're called magnetotactic bacteria). however, not all animals that have magnetite seem to use it-- humans, for example, do have magnetite (in the forehead reagion, if i recall), and there have been no repeateable tests showing human magneto-reception. <br><br>thanks to the wonder that is google, i found a few pages on magnetotactic bacteria below:<br><br><a href='http://www.gps.caltech.edu/~rkopp/colle ... netite.pdf' target='_blank'>Biomineralization in Magnetotactic Bacteria</a><br><br><a href='http://www.calpoly.edu/~rfrankel/mtbcalpoly.html' target='_blank'>homepage for magnetotactic bacteria</a><br><br>and if anyone really cares to know more, i can try to dredge up more info (or at least links to more info) from my classnotes. i don't promiss that i'll be at all speady at replying, since i've got so much work to do (the only reason i'm here now is b/c i'm trying to take a nap, but am being insomniac, and i hope that this way i'll get tired enoguh to sleep).... so if i haven't responded and you've gotten impatent, PM me to remind me....

[ShadOtterdan]

We have magnetite? I can actually seem to use it, even when dredging up old memories of a place, I can usually find out which direction was north. Strangly enough though, east seems to correspond with an up feeling.

[Dr. Dos]

I remember one night listening to some crazy radio show on some random AM station, this guy was talking about how many people get headaches before earthquakes because of the magnetite. No idea how true that is, but pretty neat.

[penguinita]

yeah dr. dos, i've heard of that before- or atleast of the possiblility of animals sensing earthquakes from their magnetozomes (which is the name of the sensing organ that the magnetite is part of), but it's always been in the catagory of "nutty idea". of course, lots of theorys start off as nutty ideas and then get devolped..... and there was a talk recently that i could have gone to about the whole earth-quake sensing thingy, but i had far too much work. i do wonder tho what the mechanism they are sugesting is for why there would be magnetic changes just before an earthquake.

[Henohenomoheji]

Earthquakes are just in your imagination. They're not real. They're just a computerized simulation designed to keep things realistic. but they're not real. just as the air you're breathing is not real. The matrix has you! Free your mind! [zimimitate.exe]FREE IT NOOOWW!!![/zimimitate.exe]<br><br>ugh... I have played too much "enter the matrix". Y'know, aside from the lack of replay value and the fact that both storylines are almost exactly the same, ETM is not that bad. it's a rental though. I'll miss it.<br><br>Back in regard to earthquakes, I'm going to change my answer. It's not the matrix programming. It's one of the Llewellyn Clan conspiracies.