Why I (and perhaps you) have played less video games of late

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Gizensha
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Postby Gizensha » Sat Jul 29, 2006 8:29 pm

It all depends on the type of game you're going for.

I LIKE my FPS's to look real, but I don't want to go down the street shooting up "gansta's." I want to be immersed in the game, but I want to be immersed somewhere else. I want to travel to the future, or to the distant past. I just don't want to be HERE and NOW.

For platformers I want to do the same, but not in such a realistic or immersive way. Platformers are played for the fun of playing the game. While I'll admit that some had awesome storylines, I say keep the in-depth stories for the "realistic" games. A really good example here is the Spyro series. Not too much story, but enough to make the gameplay even more fun.

RPG's are the hardest. I don't mind games like Shadowrun that are realistic, but I also loved Mario RPG (The SNES one) and, somewhat, the Final Fantasies. RPG is truly the most flexible genre, as it can encompass anything.

And sdo ends my rant, hope it was as useless as I could make it.
Oh, but platformers with deep stories are fantastic. While I do see your point about platformers should have 'light' storylines, never confuse 'in-depth' with 'heavy'.

Take the plot to Klonoa 2: Lunatea's Veil as an example. Extremely light and frothy in form, but gorgeous metaphor for human psychology, and a beautiful structural twist where the game's structure causes something within the plot to happen which causes the gameplay to change temporarially, really ties the gameplay with the story nicely (which is the problem with most platform games with plots. And quite a few jRPGs for that matter)

Rooster - The Interactive Movie mandate actually plateued the gaming industry in it's developement as a literary medium in it's own right for about five years, causing it to try and tell stories that were better served by movies rather than stories that are well served by games. This isn't to say that stories should be limited to movies, but that games should tell stories in a fundamentally different way to the way movies tell stories, since they are at their heart interactive. The "Interactive movies" drive tended to result in games which were cut-scene heavy, and where the gameplay basically served to bridge cutscenes together.
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Ibun
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Postby Ibun » Sat Jul 29, 2006 11:08 pm

Now that I think about it, I didn't take into account other great PC games like Diablo I & II and the Monkey Island Series. @_@
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Postby Blue Blur » Sun Jul 30, 2006 3:29 am

Rooster - The Interactive Movie mandate actually plateued the gaming industry in it's developement as a literary medium in it's own right for about five years, causing it to try and tell stories that were better served by movies rather than stories that are well served by games. This isn't to say that stories should be limited to movies, but that games should tell stories in a fundamentally different way to the way movies tell stories, since they are at their heart interactive. The "Interactive movies" drive tended to result in games which were cut-scene heavy, and where the gameplay basically served to bridge cutscenes together.
You have a similar opinion to me, and this is where I differ from many people. Half Life 1 and 2 both succeeded like they did because the story, which is indeed excellent, never did get in the way of gameplay. Episode 1 did, kinda, but it was still very enjoyable to slide down a few vents in a van. :P
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Postby FerretParade » Sun Jul 30, 2006 7:17 am

This company like stole everything that made diablo great and its called Titan Quest I love it

And holy damn Rooster you needa play Condemned: Criminal Origins

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Postby Gizensha » Sun Jul 30, 2006 11:44 am

You have a similar opinion to me, and this is where I differ from many people. Half Life 1 and 2 both succeeded like they did because the story, which is indeed excellent, never did get in the way of gameplay. Episode 1 did, kinda, but it was still very enjoyable to slide down a few vents in a van. :P
Half Life is also probably the best Survival Horror ever (Well, that survival horror series without any supernatural elements sounds interesting, but it's meant to be ripe with technical flaws). And I know it wasn't billed/designed as such, but I really do feel that it feels more survival horror than first person shooter.

(It's also rather scary that the Peter Jackson's King Kong game is actually good from any objective standpoint of game design. The vast majority of cutscenes are delivered indistinguishable from the gameplay, it implements an adaptive difficulty system which seems to work, and it successfully manages to implement an 'pure' interface (ie, no icons, etc) most of the time... The length doesn't drag, which doesn't neccessarially mean it wasn't too short, but it's more or less impossable to know if somethings 'just right', but blatently obvious when something's even five minutes too long...)

Actually, thinking about it, both HL and PJKK:TOGOTM are 100% linear, but you don't notice it because it doesn't *feel* like it's railroading you, and all (or nearly all) of the cutscenes/set pieces are playable through.

Thank goodness the 'interactive movie' blind-alley was backed out of for the most part in the early 00s after being entered into in the mid-late 90s, for the most part. Shame that Square-Enix don't seem to have backed out of it yet.
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Postby Rooster » Sun Jul 30, 2006 3:06 pm

Rooster - The Interactive Movie mandate actually plateued the gaming industry in it's developement as a literary medium in it's own right for about five years, causing it to try and tell stories that were better served by movies rather than stories that are well served by games. This isn't to say that stories should be limited to movies, but that games should tell stories in a fundamentally different way to the way movies tell stories, since they are at their heart interactive. The "Interactive movies" drive tended to result in games which were cut-scene heavy, and where the gameplay basically served to bridge cutscenes together.
Yeah, that's what I mean. I hate anything that gets in the way of the story (eg cut scenes) Sometimes cut-scenes are ok if they're done well, like in games like Killzone and Quake 4. But games like MEHTUL Gear Solid are about half cut scene, and that sucks ass.
And holy damn Rooster you needa play Condemned: Criminal Origins
Never heard of it, but I'll look into it :wag:

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Postby Caoimhin » Sun Jul 30, 2006 6:38 pm

This company like stole everything that made diablo great and its called Titan Quest I love it
If you look at all video games they all have a roots in early pen & paper RPGs, EVEN non-RPG video games. The reason is this, p&p RPGs used different sided dice (there are jokes and appearences of this everywhere, even on that Degrassi show), d4's (looks like a pyramid), d6's, d8's, d10's, d12's, and d20's. Each of these has a different chance of probability to roll on a certain number, yes math does pay off :-P . Now move onto the home computer, which happed to come around after the original D&D came out (1972 or 1974 I beleive). In a way a computer is similar to different kinds of dice, except imgaine dice rolls that are "fudged"(a term used for making a roll higher or lower than it actually is). Now of course the analogy is even better when it comes to video games, there seems to be some sort of probability in all video games, which are determined probably by something similar to virtual dice, maybe it has a 1 in 4 chance, or a 3 in 8 chance, or whatever. But it doesn't end there FF WAS the first video game to implement the famous round system, but look at the "generic" names, Fighter (hmmm...) and Thief (the original name for the now Rogue class). While these are perfectly common words to be used, it still makes you think about the coincidence. Even the round sytem is not a video game creation, p&p RPGs were the first. Of course Diablo and WoW are realtime rather than in rounds, but still, of all that probably has its roots in the little plastic dice, being rolled in a basement in the 70s, with Pink Floyd or King Crimson playing in the background.
i don't really play video games much, I've found there are so many good books out there. I want to read the Dune trilogy at some point, Thomas Covenant, re-read Ivanhoe, re-read the Elric saga (a sword that steals souls, how much cooler can you get?). Then theres D&D, which the campaing I play in often has hours of role-play, just yesterday I was telling a made up an Elven folk-tale on the fly (well its mentioned on the site, but I didn't have anything about it handy, so I winged it a little). We happened to have a Flind in the party (think of it as a canine furry like thing), which was fun to be around because we were sleeping in the stables. And there are real people behind it all, the DM makes his own plan, but he will often sit back for hours on end letting us move the story along through role-play and planning the consequences of our actions, think of it as that video game Fable, except with actual people. I think its better to spend 6 hours once a week using my creativity, than sit playing video games for hours all week. Although I have become slightly addicted to Pokemon Crystal, sorta nostalgic for me. I've actually started to take the time and use the Day Care Center to breed Pokemon (which if you do it right will result in MUCH more powerful ones).

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Tom Flapwell
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Postby Tom Flapwell » Mon Jul 31, 2006 12:51 am

I can tell you don't play video games much, because I'm not convinced of your claim that all video games have their roots in tabletop RPGs. Where's the element of probability in Super Mario Bros.? Everything's laid out the same each time.

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Postby Dr. Doog » Mon Jul 31, 2006 1:18 am

well he was only talking about the ones that include P&PRPG as part of their roots, duh. </politician>
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Postby Tabris_The_17th » Mon Jul 31, 2006 3:12 am

Where's the element of probability in Super Mario Bros.? Everything's laid out the same each time.
And yet we still manage to get killed by the same friggin' goomba. WONT WE EVER LEARN!?
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Postby Bocaj Claw » Mon Jul 31, 2006 3:35 am

I like Megaman games. What could be better than thwarting an evil Albert Einstein who builds eight weapons of mass destruction in robot form?
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Caoimhin
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Postby Caoimhin » Mon Jul 31, 2006 3:49 am

Now move onto the home computer, which happed to come around after the original D&D came out (1972 or 1974 I beleive). In a way a computer is similar to different kinds of dice, except imgaine dice rolls that are "fudged"(a term used for making a roll higher or lower than it actually is).
I'm not quite sure how it fits in, I remember something about comparing the way computers are programmed being similar to a whole bunch of dice "modules". I couldn't exactly find a way to describe it. But I WAS saying that all video games have their roots in tabletop RPGs, not exactly in the game itself, but rather "the programming". The biggest problem is I'll remember a bit of information and then when it actually becomes semi-useful I can't remember where it comes from. I also do not play video games because I can be easily hooked into hours of playing, more obsessive compulsive if anything. I have to be very careful, I'm actually debating whether I should even be on the computer right now. I'll likely be on for much longer than I intend. And yes I do keep saying that I won't and then I do. Reading doesn't really help either, I will and would stay up all night reading. When I say that I was somewaht addicted to the Pokemon Crystal thing, it wasn't exactly an exaggeration. I played it every chance I got, I have no clue where my GameBoy is, so I used my sister's who has now hidden it somewhere. And now that I don't have access too it, I don't really care I move on. Obviously to this, or reading. There is not a single punishment my parents can do to me where I can't be perfectly happy without what they take away. Grounded off the computer? PS2. Grounded off the PS2? Computer. Both? Books. Which is the only thing they WILL never take away. They know this I know this, and its not exactly fun. But unlike when people say when they take something away you take for granted you realize how important it is, does not apply to me. Take away books, the computer, and PS2? My pencils? My bed so I have no where comfortable to sleep? You have to take practically everything away, before I would truly crack. A day later I would be admiring the flowers, just because they happen to be there even though I see them everyday. There is practically nothing that DOESN'T interest me, except sports, which in that case if I had too and I had the time I'd watch baseball. Thats why I don't play video games, they don't really matter to me, infact they are completely out of my mind most of the time. That is I don't even think about them, but as soon as I start playing then I'm immersed and interested. I don't quite understand it.

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Postby Dr. Dos » Mon Jul 31, 2006 4:54 pm

Where's the element of probability in Super Mario Bros.? Everything's laid out the same each time.
And yet we still manage to get killed by the same friggin' goomba. WONT WE EVER LEARN!?
There's actually a really really neat romhack called Super Mario Random. It looks something like this.

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And when you beat a level it takes you to another one at random.

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Postby Dr. Doog » Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:15 pm

Thank you, Digital Research product, for that semi-illegal promotion! *googles*
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Postby Jerry Roosevelt » Mon Jul 31, 2006 10:48 pm

If you happened to email me at JerryRules@gmail.com , and asked for the ROM, you definitely wouldn't get it. Since it's illegal and stuff. *wink*
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