That whole Iambic Pentameter thing... and Accents...

Discuss everything related to Ozy and Millie.
User avatar
SotiCoto
Posts:112
Joined:Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:00 pm
Location:Nowhere.
Contact:
That whole Iambic Pentameter thing... and Accents...

Postby SotiCoto » Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:32 pm

I've just been looking through the archives. It is a standard process I go through after being away for a while and then coming back to read what I've missed...

My attention was drawn to that whole Iambic Pentameter insult game in Feb 2006... and it looked to me like Ozy and Millie were in fact doing it wrong.


Then of course it occurred to me... they're probably both speaking in different accents to my own (I'm British, London-based, and speak somewhat BBC English) and thus pronouncing the words differently with different syllables stressed. It left me rather amused that potentially, what could be Iambic Pentameter with one accent could totally fail to be so with another... right?


As such... I'm still trying to figure out what D.C's accent sounds like by pronouncing what they're saying in an Iambic manner... It is proving awkward, to put it lightly.
Image
If you are under the age of 18, you are advised not to interact with me.

Richard K Niner
Posts:4297
Joined:Wed Oct 20, 2004 5:08 pm
Location:On hiatus
Contact:

Postby Richard K Niner » Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:11 pm

It has to rhyme?
<center>Image
K9U | Dog House | Av rotation</center>

User avatar
SotiCoto
Posts:112
Joined:Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:00 pm
Location:Nowhere.
Contact:

Postby SotiCoto » Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:15 pm

It has to rhyme?
Nope.
Iambic Pentameter doesn't have to rhyme at all.
It is based on unstressed and stressed syllables in sequence... five of each (pentameter)...

The problem with accent however occurs with particular words...
For instant... Yogurt.

Americans pronounce it: "YO-gurt" ... with more emphasis on the first syllable.
Brits generally pronounce it "Yog-URT" ... with more emphasis on the latter syllable.

As such, for correct iambic pentameter... the word could be used for the first and second syllables if pronouncing it the British way, or with the second and third if pronouncing it the American way...
Image
If you are under the age of 18, you are advised not to interact with me.

CodeCat
Posts:3294
Joined:Sun May 21, 2006 8:58 pm
Location:Eindhoven, Netherlands
Contact:

Postby CodeCat » Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:07 pm

In American tomato and potato rhyme, in English they don't. So any rhyme using those words would fail in English. And it's a sign that the two languages are drifting apart.

This is in fact normal in the evolution of languages. It's happened before, and not just with stress but also with pronunciation. In some dialects words start to rhyme or share another property, in others they keep their old properties.

I remember one example showed a text in Old Norwegian:

Reið kveða rossum vesta,
Reginn sló sverðit besta.

Germanic poetry is often alliterative, rhyming not with the ends of words but with the beginnings (in this case it's actually both). The alliteration here is in the r's at the start: reið rossum reginn. Now, Old Norwegian lost the h from rossum, the original word being hrossum. However Old Icelandic still had the h, so if you translated this into Old Icelandic the alliteration would break and no longer work.
Furries? Are they the nutters that pretend to be animals and draw humans that look like animals? Christ, I sink my head into my paws... -Rooster

User avatar
Tom Flapwell
Posts:5465
Joined:Wed Feb 23, 2005 1:48 pm
Location:DC
Contact:

Postby Tom Flapwell » Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:11 pm

In American tomato and potato rhyme, in English they don't. So any rhyme using those words would fail in English. And it's a sign that the two languages are drifting apart.
They have been drifting apart, but the trend is partially reversed by the mainstreaming of culture, as DCS cited with regard to Isolde's lack of a font-denoted accent.
See other much-maligned creatures in my webcomic: http://downscale.comicgenesis.com

User avatar
SotiCoto
Posts:112
Joined:Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:00 pm
Location:Nowhere.
Contact:

Postby SotiCoto » Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:19 pm

In American tomato and potato rhyme, in English they don't. So any rhyme using those words would fail in English. And it's a sign that the two languages are drifting apart.
They have been drifting apart, but the trend is partially reversed by the mainstreaming of culture, as DCS cited with regard to Isolde's lack of a font-denoted accent.
I'd say we're dealing with perhaps a sigmoid curve there...
Afterall... while television has done much to americanise parts of the native English langauge (and somewhat less to Anglicise the american common language).... one must not forget that most Internet content is in text form and thus loses that influence upon accent.

That said... the Internet in part spawns the gradual birth of new languages in its own right... much of which is completely non-vocal by nature. Attempts to vocalise it of course will differ depending on the native accents of those making the attempts.



In fact... on that very subject, I'm not afraid to admit that my girlfriend and I communicate primarily in a bizarre mixture of Feline (miawing) and Lolcat... and I'm not talking about text here.
Image
If you are under the age of 18, you are advised not to interact with me.

CodeCat
Posts:3294
Joined:Sun May 21, 2006 8:58 pm
Location:Eindhoven, Netherlands
Contact:

Postby CodeCat » Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:22 pm

You should also not underestimate the influence perscribed spelling has on pronunciation. Ideally, pronunciation is what dictates spelling and not the other way around. But unfortunately most people seem to think that spelling is 'the right way' and try to pronounce what they read rather than write what they pronounce. And so, we're stuck with the excesses of over 500 years of language evolution in English spelling.
Furries? Are they the nutters that pretend to be animals and draw humans that look like animals? Christ, I sink my head into my paws... -Rooster

User avatar
Dhokarena56
Posts:28
Joined:Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:14 am
Location:Under the sofa

Postby Dhokarena56 » Mon Dec 17, 2007 12:32 am

I am more familiar with dactylic hexameter, which is used in the Iliad and the Odyssey.
Anthrope! Me paideusete Homeron moi?

User avatar
SotiCoto
Posts:112
Joined:Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:00 pm
Location:Nowhere.
Contact:

Postby SotiCoto » Mon Dec 17, 2007 9:48 am

I am more familiar with dactylic hexameter, which is used in the Iliad and the Odyssey.
You are one of those language specialist sorts, aren't you? *Blinks*

^_^
Image
If you are under the age of 18, you are advised not to interact with me.

User avatar
Dhokarena56
Posts:28
Joined:Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:14 am
Location:Under the sofa

Postby Dhokarena56 » Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:11 pm

I am more familiar with dactylic hexameter, which is used in the Iliad and the Odyssey.
You are one of those language specialist sorts, aren't you? *Blinks*

^_^
Yep.

With a knowledge of a few Spanish swear words, a rusty knowledge of Ancient Greek, a working knowledge of French, learning Latin, and a future desire to learn Sanskrit and possibly Chinese or Quechua.
Anthrope! Me paideusete Homeron moi?

User avatar
SotiCoto
Posts:112
Joined:Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:00 pm
Location:Nowhere.
Contact:

Postby SotiCoto » Mon Dec 17, 2007 11:13 pm

Yep.

With a knowledge of a few Spanish swear words, a rusty knowledge of Ancient Greek, a working knowledge of French, learning Latin, and a future desire to learn Sanskrit and possibly Chinese or Quechua.
... Chinese?
Mandarin or Cantonese.... or both?

Awesome languages. I can't understand a word of either, but I can tell them apart at least... due to the watching of many Kung Fu films.
Image
If you are under the age of 18, you are advised not to interact with me.

User avatar
Rooster
Posts:4099
Joined:Fri May 27, 2005 9:08 pm
Location:Up There Cazaly
Contact:

Postby Rooster » Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:41 am

The US and the UK: Two countries separated by a common language.

And a sodding great ocean, thank Christ! :wag:

Zaaphod
Moderator (retired)
Posts:6319
Joined:Tue Oct 28, 2003 7:16 pm

Postby Zaaphod » Tue Dec 18, 2007 1:50 am

And a sodding great ocean, thank Christ! :wag:
We feel the same way over here. You Brits are scary. Especially you! :P
Image
Made by Angela. :D

User avatar
SotiCoto
Posts:112
Joined:Tue Mar 13, 2007 4:00 pm
Location:Nowhere.
Contact:

Postby SotiCoto » Tue Dec 18, 2007 9:09 am

The US and the UK: Two countries separated by a common language.

And a sodding great ocean, thank Christ! :wag:
If plate tectonics had feelings, they would just have been hurt.
Credit where credit is due and all that.
Image
If you are under the age of 18, you are advised not to interact with me.

KJ Fellie
Posts:807
Joined:Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:38 pm
Location:Mars Academy
Contact:

Postby KJ Fellie » Tue Dec 18, 2007 12:48 pm

Yes, thanks to tectonics, we are moving farther apart, and the U.S. (along with the rest of North and South America) is drawing nearer to Asia (and Australia), though it seems Hawaii and a few other great places are going to get squeezed. Then they'll be saying "Get those creepy Americans away from us!"

Though at this point in time, the only thing distances do is affect the length of the flight over.
Quoth the spotted fox: <b>*yerf*</b> :locke:
You usually
have to take what people say
with a grain of salt.
(or in cases like
mine, a shaker or two may
yield the best result.)

むらがあるフォックス
If you miss my old sigs...


Return to “Ozy and Millie”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 32 guests